Websnark

Comment from: Wednesday White posted at March 5, 2006 7:11 PM

Also, while we're on things that make you feel better? Tell me Cannibal Barbarian isn't full of lines that would work in a Questionable Content side story or something. (Note: Something Awful is not worksafe in many cases, and this piece talks about sex OH NO SEX but not with any real explicitness. Also, they run ads for porn now and again OH NO PORN.)

Sinnimar the Thief: Are you eating guts?!
The Barbarian: Yes, I eat guts and blood for power.
Sinnimar the Thief: That is pretty horrible.

I mean, dude.

Comment from: TasteMyHouse posted at March 5, 2006 7:58 PM

I dont really see how this is novel. there are a million little flash games whre you hit the penguin with the stick...

I think interactivity in webcomics is cool, but it doesn't add anything to the experience for me.
Its also nothing new

If you like smashing little birdies, maybe you'd like this

Oh well! I guess you never really said it was novel.

Comment from: TasteMyHouse posted at March 5, 2006 8:00 PM

Is it weird that I have a totally different take on this snark now that i realize it was a Weds post, and not an Eric snark?

Its completely retextualized. My previous comment seems totally irrelevant and a little cheeky now.

Comment from: TasteMyHouse posted at March 5, 2006 8:03 PM

i ALSO realized that the link to argon zark i posted has no date stamp on it! i was just relying on the fact that AZ is an old webcomic and that the site design looks really old fashioned to say that that particular strip was an old one, but for all i know it could be from last year!

Wow i'm a tool!

Comment from: Eric Burns posted at March 5, 2006 8:09 PM

It's... well, maybe a little weird. I mean... is the bird more novel knowing that Weds wrote about it?

Anyway -- I don't think whether or not it is unique or novel is the point. It is glorious in its simplicity. Move to avoid the shelves... or let the bird get smacked into oblivion. Weds is right -- it's stress relief and a zen koan, all in one.

Comment from: TasteMyHouse posted at March 5, 2006 8:46 PM

Maybe i'm secretly sexist!

(tool quotient +5)

Comment from: Mr Myth posted at March 5, 2006 9:17 PM

Oh. Oh my, that is fun.

I clicked on the link and played around before actually checking the post, so I ran surprised into the ability to steer the bird. After about two seconds of trying to dodge stuff...

"Wham! Thwack! Thump!" The temptation really was too much to resist. ~grin~

Comment from: Archon Divinus posted at March 5, 2006 9:38 PM

I've had so much fun with this. When ever I open my 'sporadically updated' tags, I ussually do this 2 or 3 times, at first to see how long I could keep it going, but now to smash it's head in.

Comment from: PatMan posted at March 5, 2006 10:20 PM

That was pretty neat. The real trick seeing how fast you can hit the ground. ;)

Comment from: DarkStar posted at March 5, 2006 10:28 PM

Wow, that was... a blatant waste of interactivity. I know, being webcomics people, that you are all used to not interacting or participating in your medium of choice. But is the ability to move the bird and hit things with him really all that great? Does it add much of anything.

I admit, it is kind of neat to be able to hover or click over the last panel and see stuff that moves. The first couple of strips use this passive interactivity to add ambiance and depth to an otherwise static scene. With the addition of sound and a few more ambient animations, it might even be interesting.

But the ability to control the bird is completely wasted. It could be used to such great effect. Sure, you could bash the birds skull in, and it could be made funny. But I tried to do more, to avoid. All I got for my effort was the same crash as if I had not tried at all. There was no sense of accomplishment. No matter how I tried, the payoff was the same.

What if you could be successful? You guide the bird far enough and... success! He makes it. There is a pure moment of joy and elation. Then he is hit with something else, and falls head-first into the tiles anyway. There is a sense that there was a purpose. The result is the same. The story doesn't change. But it makes you a little bit more a part of what happened. It builds a bit more tension and comedic effect for those willing to try.

The interactivity is just a gimmick. It's there to make you go, "Neat, I can make things move!". But it isn't real interactivity. It is just too flat.

Comment from: Eric Burns posted at March 5, 2006 10:42 PM

Wow, that was... a blatant waste of interactivity. I know, being webcomics people, that you are all used to not interacting or participating in your medium of choice. But is the ability to move the bird and hit things with him really all that great? Does it add much of anything.

And...

The interactivity is just a gimmick. It's there to make you go, "Neat, I can make things move!". But it isn't real interactivity. It is just too flat.

Dude. I spent twenty minutes trying to up my time on that thing.

This might be the internet equivilent of paddleball, but that doesn't mean paddleball isn't a game.

You might not care for it, but... how does one "waste" interactivity, anyhow?

Comment from: DarkStar posted at March 5, 2006 10:57 PM

You spent 20 minutes on it. I'll admit, I wasted a few of my own too. I spent time trying to do something other than the scripted 3 or 4 hits and the bird gets it. Where was my pay off for trying to make the bird avoid stuff? I couldn't even guide him to the ground. I had to hit the shelves to even reach the pre-determined end.

I can move the bird. That makes it interactive. I'll concede that (look up the definition). I just don't understand why that is enough. Why aren't we looking for more? It could have been better. As it stands, it's just a gimmick. Sure, it draws you into doing it again and again. But it isn't innovative.

Comment from: Wednesday White posted at March 5, 2006 10:58 PM

Who said it was innovative? Who said it had to be innovative?

It's therapeutic.

Comment from: Archon Divinus posted at March 5, 2006 11:01 PM

Anf fun.

Comment from: Robert Hutchinson posted at March 6, 2006 12:21 AM

I know, being webcomics people, that you are all used to not interacting or participating in your medium of choice.

Yes. Sometimes, it can be saddening to participate in no other forms of entertainment besides webcomics. But we soldier on.

It only kept my attention for about two minutes, but that's two minutes longer than one normally keeps looking at a comic after one has finished reading it. If I expected to be playing a whiz-bang Flash game, I'd go to sites that, you know, have those.

Comment from: Denyer posted at March 6, 2006 12:47 AM

Old classic: http://www.armegalo.com/wrath/overkill.html

Comment from: Prodigal posted at March 6, 2006 2:10 AM

I tried to gleefully steer the bird into the shelves. But I wound up feeling guilty by the time it was done. Curse you, overdeveloped conscience of mine!

Comment from: jjacques posted at March 6, 2006 2:28 AM

Marten: Mighty Jimbo has redeemed himself. Are you alright, Faye?
Faye: Yes, I am. Thank you for saving me. I can't believe Jimbo is gone.
Marten : Yes. So much wasted guts.
[Pintsize suddenly rises up out of the magma]
Marten: Pintsize! This is worse than before!
...
Marten: The apartment is safe again. [Dora or Faye or who fucking knows], you have stolen many things, but mostly you stole my heart.
Dora (or Faye or who fucking knows): You also stole my heart, Barbarian.
Marten: My loins burn hotter than the magma that burned the King of Vampires with its heat.
Dora or (Faye or who fucking knows): French kiss me really hard!

Comment from: miyaa posted at March 6, 2006 2:29 AM

Eh, it's better than tying up a bunch of webcartoonists and beat them over and over again.

Comment from: Ray Radlein posted at March 6, 2006 3:15 AM

Dora or (Faye or who fucking knows): French kiss me really hard!

All right, then! Now that you have this week's scripts all sorted out, get drawing!

Comment from: Merus posted at March 6, 2006 6:00 AM

Eh, it's better than tying up a bunch of webcartoonists and beat them over and over again.

I don't know, last time I did that they squealed like a bunch of girls. It was really funny.

The question is why I kept tying up and beating webcartoonists over and over if it was only fun a couple of times. Maybe to beat the drama out of them, I don't know.

Comment from: DarkStar posted at March 6, 2006 11:47 PM

I'm sorry if I sounded a little harsh or condescending in my previous posts. It was not my intention. It is just that lately I've been studying games and interactivity and story. I see so much potential in what the artist could have done with the comic. It seems to me that there is a step that too often is missed. We get to interactivity and we stop, because it is... well... interactive now. What more could it be?

So much more.

My further thoughts and such over on my blog:
http://ghostsinthegame.blogspot.com/2006/03/lie-of-interactivity.html

Comment from: DarkStar posted at March 7, 2006 9:50 PM

B. Shur posted a response to me (and in general) over on my blog. Due to technical difficulties with Websnark he was unable to post here. He requested that I post this for him.

I think I know how you feel. The whole reason I started I am a Rocket Builder was to play around with what I see as wasted potential in webcomics a a medium.

People coming to the site through a link to a specific bit of it often don't know that the interactive stuff is part of a
larger experiment.

Experiment is the word here, and it is a newish experiment so there isn't as much to see yet as I would like there to be. The interactive part of IAARB is inspired by a flash site I used to check out when I was learning actionscript. He would post little experiments in flash, trying to see where it could be taken. Not always the most cutting edge, just a bit of a doodle and then a bit more.

The idea is that I'm playing and experimenting. How does interactivity fit into a comic without taking away the comicness of it? Pretty much every interactive comic that I've seen really just lets the user control when panels are revealed or when a special animation or doodad is shown. I wanted to try in every installment a different way of engaging the reader without giving up the fixed nature of the story.

In that last installment it was a game with a virtual gutter. The starting and ending images of the final panel could have been placed next to each other and told the same basic story. In between, as Scott Mc. tells us, our mind would fill in the actual fall. What if that wasn't just a quick moment in the imagination, but a game-like environment. Would that take the imagination and the life out of the transition or would it foster a new kind of connection? I actually thought it might bring some sympathy for the bird to put the reader in his shoes. Turns out it just brought out the sadism in most people. That's ok though. I thought of adding a reward for dodging the shelves but honestly the whole thing took much longer than it should have anyway and I don't think that would have added much. I would have made it a bit more polished, a bit more complete, but I'd already gotten out a good sketch of the kind of interactivity I wanted to play with.

I guess I'm approaching these as a learning experience. The question for me isn't "Is that the perfect way to tell that bit of story", but "Ooh! What'll happen if I try this?"

I, for some reason can't log into websnark so I would be indebted to you if you would post this for me.

Thanks!
B

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