Websnark

Comment from: Bo Lindbergh posted at December 7, 2005 12:55 AM

I predict no balconies. Instead, she'll bump into him while in civvies. They won't recognise one other until after she's picked him up from the ground and set him on his feet again....

Comment from: larksilver posted at December 7, 2005 1:19 AM

I only found this comic a few days ago, but man does it rock. Also, Abby is a She Hulk fan. That alone makes her awesome in my book.

Comment from: Colin L. Burke posted at December 7, 2005 1:24 AM

Wow, two Comic Genesis sites in a row, and certainly two of the most deserving ones to reserve snarks. Do you have any idea how much of a commotion this is causing in the forums? ;)

Seriously, this and Anywhere But Here are quality comics that are only going to get bigger and better everyday. You just never know what's out there 'til you look.

Comment from: John Lynch posted at December 7, 2005 1:39 AM

Damnit! Now you've given me a good excuse to read two strips I've been wanting to check out for a while now. I'm thinking I should perhaps ban myself from Websnark for a month or two.

I've got 6 comics whose archives I'm currently trawling through, I'm suppose to have 4 at the very most. So you snarking two comics that look pretty good isn't helping matters.

Comment from: LurkerWithout posted at December 7, 2005 3:26 AM

Oh no you don't. You've already got me into one NEW webcomic this week. I can resist your blandishments (is that the word?) on this one. I can...

Who am I kidding? Hopefully this one also has a short archive so far.

Go snark Killroy and Tina. I already read that one. Or DC Comics. Yeah. Snark DC, since I've given up on their mainstream titles...

Comment from: Abby L. posted at December 7, 2005 3:45 AM

It's not that long. I'll hit 100, not counting fillers, on Friday.

Comment from: PO8 posted at December 7, 2005 4:30 AM

It would be an interesting time to snark Mindmistress. I cracked up when I saw the totally unexpected crossover start in yesterday's strip. Especially since the crossoverer (is that a word?) has been on hiatus for a month, and expects to be on hiatus for a month more.

For that matter I don't recall that you've snarked them either. Further, the crossoverer's other strip is...a superhero strip! (Obviously, I'm trying to avoid a spoiler here. Go read yesterday's Mindmistress and today's.)

Funny world.

Comment from: John Lynch posted at December 7, 2005 7:39 AM

Yeah, you were right Abby. It didn't take long at all. Very enjoyable comic, it's been added to my comic list. Although one thing I was kinda dissapointed with, was that you're doing the whole "glasses" thing, where by not wearing her costume, the Green Avenger looks COMPLETELY different. At least the fireman hasn't gotten close to both the people, but you'd think her employer would have checked out some pictures of the Green Avenger, and put two and two together.

But despite that nit-pick, good comic.

Comment from: Ojin posted at December 7, 2005 8:47 AM

Well, I'm not exactly high profile, but I've been moving through my own super-human (not sure I could call them super-heroes) comic for coming up to two years now. (URL above, and I have no idea if TypeKey usues HTML links or some proprietary format, or it'd be down here too. ;p)

Great to see other Superhero stuff out there too- I'd not heard of the Green Avenger 'till now- and it's looking most awesome. Respect to you, Abby. And also Eric. ^-^

Comment from: Tim Tylor posted at December 7, 2005 8:53 AM

There's a fair few superhero webcomics around, eight in Graphic Smash alone if you include Flick. (Sandy Carruther's Canadiana is worth a look, for one.) I suspect they seem fewer than they are because of the contrast with printed comics.

Comment from: Tim Tylor posted at December 7, 2005 10:41 AM

And Brian Daniel's superfly-on-the-wall expose strip is a must.

Comment from: Eric Burns posted at December 7, 2005 12:55 PM

Yeah, you were right Abby. It didn't take long at all. Very enjoyable comic, it's been added to my comic list. Although one thing I was kinda dissapointed with, was that you're doing the whole "glasses" thing, where by not wearing her costume, the Green Avenger looks COMPLETELY different. At least the fireman hasn't gotten close to both the people, but you'd think her employer would have checked out some pictures of the Green Avenger, and put two and two together.

I dunno. Back in our Superguy Days, we called it the Mask Principle, whereby a tiny domino mask, by a law of physics, made a superhero completely unrecognizable despite no change in face, hairstyle or voice. It's such an automatic convention, I guess I have no problem accepting it.

Of course, Christopher Reeve being so utterly perfect at redoing his physicality from Clark to Superman helped. I can't ever forget the moment in Lois's apartment where she's gone into the other room, he takes off his glasses, and seems almost to swell as he shifts physical presence.

It was a trick Dean Cain, who I otherwise liked quite a bit as Superman, never quite got the hang of.

Comment from: HydrogenGuy posted at December 7, 2005 1:37 PM

Also, her arch enemy is a goose.

I mean, a goose.

Dude.

Bah. Lobsters are funnier.

Comment from: HydrogenGuy posted at December 7, 2005 1:38 PM

Dammit! Forgot to close the blockquote.

Comment from: siwangmu posted at December 7, 2005 2:03 PM

Quote from the archives, day 4 or so:

"Abby says: Well, it's the start. And you know what that means? It sucks."

BWAhahahaha! That was awesomely funny. And, so far at least, very untrue. I think I'm gonna like it here (er, there? Shut up, it worked fine that way).

Comment from: siwangmu posted at December 7, 2005 2:06 PM

I just ran into at least four more things, in, like, the next three strips, that I wanted to immediately run here and post on account of funny. It will not do. You shall have to all take my word that this strip is an anti-minefield where every step risks unexpected bursts of delight.

CHICKENS!

Comment from: Remus Shepherd posted at December 7, 2005 2:11 PM

I'm still trying to figure out Eric's comment that 'there aren't a lot of superhero comics out there'. There are tons. Seem to be everywhere I turn on the web. Not many of them are of the calibre of Green Avenger or Mindmistress, but they're a very large faction in the webcomic world.

I'm assuming that Eric just doesn't commonly read superhero webcomics, and he's just starting to stumble into the genre. In that case, welcome. :)

Comment from: siwangmu posted at December 7, 2005 2:36 PM

Oh God, I'm sorry, I can't help myself:

"Ahhh, existential angst. Where would superheroes be without it? Probably not in coffeeshops! Or poetry jams. Nope."

::in love::

Also, I agree with whoever said the "not that many superhero strips" perception is 'cuz of the print comics market--I'd guess that people loosely based on their authors and authors' friends who sit on couches a lot is the "superhero" of webcomickdom, does that sound right?
I love both those dominant genres, so it's fine with me anyway.

Oh, also: bottom left of this comic

::IN LOVE::

Comment from: Dave Van Domelen posted at December 7, 2005 2:56 PM

Okay, just finished my own trawl. I have something I noted on her tagboard, but I figure I can more fully explore here (and I know she's reading this thread). :)

Simply put, how seriously is the presence of Other Peoples Trademarks taken in the Green Avenger setting? It seems that Superman et al are real people GA can interact with, but at the same time, there's a fictional outsider's view (i.e. if it's the current Superman, then you'd need to be Inner Circle to know about him and Lois...or the Lavender Fey has been snooping). And there's also the issue of cross-company presences, like Storm or She-Hulk. Is she in a version of the DC Universe, but reads Marvel comics? That sort of thing.

One approach, that seems likely in this case, is the Flaming Carrot one. All the Marvel and DC heroes exist in the setting, but they're busy with the cosmic stuff, while the Mysterymen take care of small-time crime in Iron City and other lower profile places. If the milltown heroes ever meet any of the big guns, it's off-panel and fleeting.

(Silly aside: as another Superguy alum, I'll point out that Superguy himself never actually appears on panel, he's always rushing off to another disaster, maybe leaving a sticky note to let people know he was there. He was Samaritan before Busiek put out Astro City #1. :) )

A related question: if Superman *is* a real person that the Green Avenger could meet, why doesn't she? It's sort of the elephant in the room. Even in a large superheroic community, paths tend to cross, especially with active heroes. Everyone crosses over with Spider-Man and Wolverine eventually, and almost everyone meets Superman. It could, of course, be a recurring plot point that she never manages to meet Superman. Just something to think about as the Story stuff continues. :)

Comment from: Josy posted at December 7, 2005 4:00 PM

If Superman *is* a real person that the Green Avenger could meet, why doesn't she? It's sort of the elephant in the room. Even in a large superheroic community, paths tend to cross, especially with active heroes. Everyone crosses over with Spider-Man and Wolverine eventually, and almost everyone meets Superman. It could, of course, be a recurring plot point that she never manages to meet Superman.

A. First of all, the GA first established herself in high school, and from what I can tell, she's not that far OUT of high school yet. If she's only been superheroing for 3-4 years, it's possible that fewer opportunities to meet Superman have presented themselves to her than, say, to some superhero who's been at it for 40 years.

B. Well, maybe Abby doesn't recognize Superman when he's in plainclothes, either. And maybe he's in civvies a LOT. Y'know, speed of light, gets the job done quickly, doesn't need to be in uniform very much, that sort of thing...

C. I haven't done an archive trawl in a while, so I may be completely off-base here, but is there anything that conclusively proves that Superman HASNÌT retired yet?

Comment from: alschroeder posted at December 7, 2005 4:12 PM

I would just like to thank Eric for the near-snark in linking to me, and agree that Green Avenger is one of the best ones out there. If mine is more old-timey Fantastic Four---high concepts, idea-driven, sense of wonder stuff, Green Avenger is more like early Spider-Man---a sense of recognition, of empathy, of ordinariness, in everything she does. It has real heart. I put a review of it in the "webcomix weview" section of Buzzcomix, at http://www.buzzcomix.net/community/viewtopic.php?t=6592

Comment from: Wistful Dreamer posted at December 7, 2005 4:47 PM

"there's a core sense of... normalcy that clings to the cast. Abby saves a life, and yes they're thankful, but it's just kind of a given. She's a super hero. This is what she's supposed to do. This is how the world works.

On the gripping hand, I admit it. I'm psyched we have two super heroines who look like real girls with real proportions, not porn stars. "

Maybe that's why I like it so much. Being a college ager out in "Midwestota", I feel like I could bump into Abby (the character) walking down Washington Ave. She doesn't live under a mansion in new england and fly a modified Lockheed to get to her adventures, or have secret meetings with some kind or Justice League. She's just a young adult who happens to clobber villians and pull people out of fires, now if you'll excuse her, she has to get to the movie rental store before it closes or she'll get a late fee. She's also delightfully flawed, despite sharing her author's name.

Comment from: 32_footsteps posted at December 7, 2005 4:57 PM

I don't know about how easy it would be for Abby to run into Supes, if he's real. I mean, look at the real world. You could be involved for years in the interest of your dreams (here, let's take comics) and never meet the most famous people from that subset (like, say, Jack Kirby or Lynn Johnston), at least for years. And others just have the weird charm that brings them into contact with the big shots quickly.

Comment from: Eric Burns posted at December 7, 2005 5:02 PM

She's also delightfully flawed, despite sharing her author's name.

Which is also a point. Abby (the character) may be the lead. She's hardly a Mary Sue.

Comment from: Dave Van Domelen posted at December 7, 2005 6:05 PM

Josy: Well, that's part of the question, innit? Is Superman retired? Which Superman is it in the first place? If it's Silver Age Superman, sure, everyone knows there's this weird triangle thing between Superman, Lois Lane and Clark Kent. If it's a retired Silver Age Superman, maybe everyone knows Clark is Superman. But if it's the current mainstream Superman, everyone knows Lois is married to Clark, and anything there might have been between her and Superman was one-way and long over. :)

32: Yeah, she's minor league, but she's in *a* league. It's more like being in minor prodom than being a fan. You may never actually work with the big names, but you're a lot more likely to run into them at events.

In any event, Abby may want to put together a short FAQ. For good or ill, she's been Snarked, and that's gonna attract us overly analytical fanboy types. }->

Comment from: Dave Van Domelen posted at December 7, 2005 6:07 PM

Oops, missed one.

Eric: She's not a Mary Sue so much, but she is a self-insertion. She even calls it an autobiography with fiction added. She's more like a Legion of Net.Heroes "Writer Character", representative of but separate from the all-powerful Writer. :)

Comment from: Abby L. posted at December 7, 2005 6:40 PM

Actually, I planned on having a FAQ with the 100th comic, and was even collecting questions. I'm not sure if it's going to go up on time, since comic 100 isn't even finished and it's nearly finals week, but I'll do my best.

Time to answer questions! (Squee! I get to answer QUESTIONS!!)

Dave: To answer your first question in more detail than I did on my tag, my universe is a mish-mash of all the superhero universes I find interesting, which means I could with impugnity include Storm, Superman, Savage Dragon, Mindmistress, and even Midnighter into my mythos. I probably WON'T, but I could. It's kind of like my own personal Diniverse, where all the complicated stuff is left out and the True Universals remain. Spiderman is an everyman, (and he has hair) Superman stands for truth, justice, the American way and NOT mindwipes, and (a goodly amount of) mutants still exist. This may alienate the more fanboyish in my reader base, but it certainly makes it easier for me to make a joke. It's nice because I can change my mind at any time, since it's my universe housing all of these characters. It's scary because at any point DC or Marvel or Image or even Al could come at me brandishing the lawyer mallet.

Meeting Superman is as beyond The Green Avenger's ken as meeting, say, Stan Lee is beyond mine. Just as 32 and Josy said. It's just unlikely, especially given that The Green Avenger is in the midwest and saving people from bank robberies and not in space saving people from, like, bird-people or whatever.

As for the whole autobiography thing, I am a bit embarrassed by it from time to time, but I make sure to try my best to shy away from the Mary Sue conventions. There are a goodly number of things different between me and my avatar, though we share a name. For instance, she doesn't know the first thing about a computer, let alone the internet. Also, she, obviously, loves Superman where I'm more of a Batman chick. Incidentally, that's also why I refuse to break the fourth wall. I thought about it but then I realized that it would completely blow The Green Avenger's mind to know that she's her OWN writer. I was planning on ending the series that way, but I abandoned it. It would be a bit too Animal Man for me.

And no, Superman is not retired. It's doubtful he'd ever show up, though, since I don't plan on REALLY including any other person's character without express permission. And with DC and Marvel it may as well fly down on the wings of angels. I'm a bit worried about what will happen in the event I decide to self-publish since there are logos and references all over my work. I guess I'll have to look into that.

John: The whole secret-identity thing is something I'll address later. At the start of it, the identity thing is moot since Abby essentially IS The Green Avenger, and she doesn't have a job or do anything but superhero for a bit. She's become moderately well known now, and there's another reason she's not being recognized.

Wistful Dreamer: It's funny because you, too, could meet me walking along Washington Ave. Except that I mostly stay in St. Paul and the U scares me. I do have a letter jacket that says "The Green Avenger" on it, so keep a look out for me.

It's sort of an amazing kind of cognitive dissonance, writing a character who is very nearly you but not quite.

Comment from: Dave Van Domelen posted at December 7, 2005 7:03 PM

Gotcha. Not advocating any particular stance, just curious which yours was. (And as for meeting famous people, it can happen...I've met Julius Schwartz, after all, and I'm not even a pro. Yeah, it was at a convention, but superheroes have those too...they're called crossover mega-events.)

Comment from: 32_footsteps posted at December 7, 2005 7:16 PM

I was going to mention Stan Lee for my example, but given how much he loves to be the face of Marvel and out there everywhere, I figured he'd be much easier to meet. Hell, I have, and my involvement with comics is pretty much entirely limited to my own trawls and commenting on Websnark.

Though the presence of the comic and the way the characters talk about the heroes makes me wonder - in GA's world, are the heroes real? If so, how do they feel about the comics based on them (if they don't strictly tell their stories)? Among other things, unless they've demasked themselves, I doubt people would make Lois Lane jokes unless they were semi-fictional in the GA universe.

Comment from: Abby L. posted at December 7, 2005 8:43 PM

The thing about crossover mega-events is that when you live in the middle of the country, people don't want to come to yours. And being a superhero of very little means, the only crossover event I've personally participated in was the one involving me, Wapsisquari, the Incan warrior, Frontiersman, The Red Awesome, and Head in a Jar man.

Wapsisquari and I fought against the nefarious Hard Sell, whose main power is to sit two tables down from us and yell "BUY MY BOOK" every five seconds.

Anyway I met some really cool people, but I stayed at my table and didn't interact with the pros.

Comment from: MrPerson posted at December 7, 2005 9:04 PM

This is showing definite promise. It's on my reading list, definitely. Why is this? Not because of the charming-but-not-amazing humor, not because of the functional-but-showing-promise-and-improvement art, but because of the way the back story thing is handled. The question-mark girl is handled pretty danged neatly, both in Kelly's half-hearted return to superheroism, and in how the question-mark girl is portrayed not as a melodramatically enigmatic character, but as someone one isn't really sure of, who's sorta sympathetic and sorta not. She's a superhuman of a type I haven't actually seen before, and she's also used pretty neatly in the story. That deserves, uh... A cookie.

Comment from: gwalla posted at December 7, 2005 9:14 PM

DC and Marvel both have fictionalized versions of themselves in their own universes, which produce comics based on the adventures of their "real" heroes. In She-Hulk, Marvel comics are considered legal documents (as they supposedly accurately chronicle the actions of their subjects). In DC, it's not brought up too often (but Mark Millar did a fun little story about it). There is also a DC Comics in the Marvel universe that produces DC's titles, although they are considered fictional. And then there's Earth-Twinky...

Comment from: Tice with a J posted at December 7, 2005 9:27 PM

Abby (the character) may be the lead. She's hardly a Mary Sue.

Hmm...
Mary Sue (based on the Truth and Justice system)

Powers: Good [+2] Aura of Smooth, Expert [+4] Better at It than You Are

Qualities: Master [+6] Excessively Exotic Appearance, Expert [+4] Self-Promotion, Poor [-2] Fanfic Writer

Those of you not familiar with Truth and Justice are truly impoverished souls.

Also, I agree with whoever said the "not that many superhero strips" perception is 'cuz of the print comics market--I'd guess that people loosely based on their authors and authors' friends who sit on couches a lot is the "superhero" of webcomickdom, does that sound right?

Too true.

Green Avenger: it's like Queen of Wands, but with superheroes!

Comment from: gwalla posted at December 7, 2005 9:27 PM

I like how Kelly considers The Brain her "nemesis", even though the only thing she's done is make her talk about things she doesn't want to talk about.

Comment from: Zach Miller posted at December 7, 2005 9:28 PM

Wapsisquari and I fought against the nefarious Hard Sell, whose main power is to sit two tables down from us and yell "BUY MY BOOK" every five seconds.

Man, screw that guy. He's worse than the pouty-face dude who tries to make you feel sorry for him so you'll buy his book.

The guy's comic is about a mouse. Apparently a few years ago at Wizard World Chicago some guy came up to him and said something like, "I'm into furries, is there anything in this comic that I can masturbate to?" And the guy replied, "Sure, if that's what you're into!" Then he sold the furry his book.

Selling your soul for $2. Fun times.

Comment from: gwalla posted at December 7, 2005 9:33 PM

Also, I award Abby ten zillion geekpoints for referring to Animal Man.

Comment from: Paul Gadzikowski posted at December 7, 2005 9:49 PM

Abby: Hey, I have a website full of cartoons featuring Superman, Captain Kirk, the Doctor, Hawkeye Pierce ...

my universe is a mish-mash of all the superhero universes I find interesting, which means I could with impugnity include Storm, Superman, Savage Dragon, Mindmistress, and even Midnighter into my mythos. I probably WON'T, but I could. This may alienate the more fanboyish in my reader base, but it certainly makes it easier for me to make a joke.

Canon and continuity are overrated. When I dip into the DC universe I feel free to pick and choose from all the treaments I know. The fanboys won't mind if you've told them your rules. Tell your story!

It's nice because I can change my mind at any time, since it's my universe housing all of these characters. It's scary because at any point DC or Marvel or Image or even Al could come at me brandishing the lawyer mallet.

According to my purely passive, anecdotal research, the big corporations rarely or never shoot off cease-and-desist orders to fan websites for original, derivative work - only for unauthorized use of photos or scripts, their inarguable property. You probably wouldn't hear from DC, or Marvel, or Paramount, or the BBC (I haven't). But those are the big guys who don't have to worry much about losing their trademarks to general usage the way Bayer lost "asprin"; and the internet is ushering a new age of the little guy who might worry. If you used Mindmistress for more than a few scattered cameos you might get a polite note from Al.

It's sort of an amazing kind of cognitive dissonance, writing a character who is very nearly you but not quite.

Been there, done that. Have fun!

Comment from: Dave Van Domelen posted at December 7, 2005 10:14 PM

gwalla: is there anything more nemesis-ish than making someone relive their worst moments? :)

http://www.dvandom.com/drawings/greenavenger.JPG A little fan art, because I have a whim of steel.

Comment from: Abby L. posted at December 7, 2005 10:18 PM

Wheeeeeeeee!! This will go up ASAP. :)

Comment from: Wrye posted at December 7, 2005 10:21 PM

When it was "on", The Japanese Beetle was (is?) a great superhero humour strip, but so far I'm enjoying TGA. Always satisfying to see an artist getting better as you read along...

Comment from: quiller posted at December 7, 2005 11:10 PM

One of things I loved in Lois and Clark is when Clark's mom has sewed his Superman costume and he's first tried it on. She looks at him, and goes "Well they won't be looking at your face, that's for sure!" which I believe illicited a "Mom!" out of him...

One supposes this would also be true of many female superhero costumes. Though I'm guessing that the reason that will come up in the comic may have more to do with having a psychic friend doing something to the suit itself. Or maybe that's just how I would do it.

I think the only thing that really raises a red flag with me on other people's copyrights was the one where Abby is pretending to be Storm.

I think I basically agree that it's got some good humor, rapidly improving art, and a reasonably intriguing storyline, so it certainly seems worth reading. And that's from someone who gave up on pretty much every superhero comic years ago. (Well I gave up on all print comics a few years ago when I lost my previous job, but when I did I think only Top Ten was still on my list.) So hey, you are kind of being favorably compared to Alan Moore ;->.

Comment from: Tice with a J posted at December 7, 2005 11:34 PM

Ah, the Japanese Beetle. It was pretty good. If only he would start it again. He didn't even end it properly.

Comment from: Wistful Dreamer posted at December 8, 2005 12:44 AM

"my universe is a mish-mash of all the superhero universes I find interesting, which means I could with impugnity include Storm, Superman, Savage Dragon, Mindmistress, and even Midnighter into my mythos...This may alienate the more fanboyish in my reader base, but it certainly makes it easier for me to make a joke. It's nice because I can change my mind at any time, since it's my universe housing all of these characters."

Hey, if the folks at Marvel keep adding a new version of the X-men universe every month (and have Wolverine in every version, but Storm and Angel never get mentioned), then how can anything YOU do count as violating the Marvel continuity?

"Wistful Dreamer: It's funny because you, too, could meet me walking along Washington Ave. Except that I mostly stay in St. Paul and the U scares me. I do have a letter jacket that says "The Green Avenger" on it, so keep a look out for me."

Hmmm. As long as I play the "I like the idea of the title character living in the same city I do." angle (treating MPLS and STP as one big city), I get to be the egalitarian, everyman-loving, "middle-America-is-not-'hicksville'-type of character. The instant I cross the line into the "I like the idea of the (opposite gender) author living in the same city I do." angle, I become Kreepy Fanboy Man, with the superpower of "Illicit Restraining Order." [In all seriousness, if Eric will give you my email, I'd buy you a chai at Cafe Latte if I could bend your ear about the new Firestorm series, how the X-men comics continue to fail me (yet I still keep coming back), and how Sluggy Freelance is the best and worst at everything.]

"It's sort of an amazing kind of cognitive dissonance, writing a character who is very nearly you but not quite. "

I'm not sure who said it first, but someone said something along the line of, "the only character you can truly write is yourself." I tend to agree. (EX: I may write an asian female accountant, but I'm really writing what I'D be like IF I were a female asian accountant.)

The distinction I was trying to make is that most comics where the main character obviously "IS" the author tend to to either go to GPF route (where Nick is small and nerdy, traits which Darlington finds acceptable flaws, but is otherwise perfect) or the Goats/Sluggy/Penny Arcade route (where you can tell that the author identifies with one specific character, but said character still gets to be the crazy-guy-that-jumps-into-suicidally-stupid-plans-for-the-benifit-of comedy type.). GA is interesting in that Abby is clearly you, yet the thrust of the story is her dealing with her own personal foibles (many of which you couldn't posses, so it isn't some type of therapy, but deliberately giving flaws to a character you identify with). I won't pretend it is unique, but it is certainly a level of artistic maturity that plenty of writers never get past).

Comment from: Abby L. posted at December 8, 2005 1:53 AM

The instant I cross the line into the "I like the idea of the (opposite gender) author living in the same city I do." angle, I become Kreepy Fanboy Man, with the superpower of "Illicit Restraining Order." [In all seriousness, if Eric will give you my email, I'd buy you a chai at Cafe Latte if I could bend your ear about the new Firestorm series, how the X-men comics continue to fail me (yet I still keep coming back), and how Sluggy Freelance is the best and worst at everything.]

No, no, never. I would NEVER spell creepy with a K. That's just insane. And if you want to email me, it's right there on my page, you should go ahead. Also, I don't read Sluggy Freelance, but you're welcome to blather at me about it.

GA is interesting in that Abby is clearly you, yet the thrust of the story is her dealing with her own personal foibles (many of which you couldn't possess, so it isn't some type of therapy, but deliberately giving flaws to a character you identify with).

Actually, the whole thing partly started as therapy, but then of course it got away from me. It's going to take a while for The Green Avenger to really acknowledge the foibles she has that I share, for plot-related reasons. And then of course there are the problems that are unique to superheroes.

Comment from: Meagen Image posted at December 8, 2005 7:14 AM

Actually, all Mary Sue litmus tests start with:

1) Is the character named after you? (This can be your real name, your nickname, or a chat handle). If so, put down your pencil and turn in your test.

Obviously, it means any character named after the author is automatically a Mary Sue, and the implication is that the story is pure wish-fullfillment and should never have left the author's hard drive.

I keep wanting to write a rant on this subject but I can never organise my thoughts properly.

Comment from: Brendan posted at December 8, 2005 8:42 AM

And with two obscure comics snarked in a row, Cortland's head explodes.

Comment from: J.(Channing)Wells posted at December 8, 2005 8:47 AM

Gah, there are things in this strip that I so want to have written...

Comment from: Eric Burns posted at December 8, 2005 9:49 AM

"Cortland?"

Comment from: Eric Burns posted at December 8, 2005 9:50 AM

Ah! The strip! Of course.

Comment from: 32_footsteps posted at December 8, 2005 10:24 AM

Well, to be fair, some people simply equate self-insertion with Mary Sue. People who aren't as immersed in fanfic as some might not catch the distinction between any self-insertion and a Mary Sue story.

Comment from: Dave Van Domelen posted at December 8, 2005 10:50 AM

Also, there's the line between self-insertion and semi-fictional autobiography that has to be considered, fuzzy and fine as it is.

Something Positive, for instance, is based on the creator's life and the people he knows. But while it contains autobiographical elements, many of the bits are pure fiction (not just the fantasy elements like Choo Choo Bear or Canadian Trapdoor Alligators). Abby's got more fantastic elements in her story, and the situations have been altered to fit the genre tropes (i.e. I doubt Abby ever hung out with a psychic vampire, but may have had a "friend" who was as close to that classification as you can get in real life).

Additionally, Mary Sues never lose. They may have setbacks, but what does not kill them only makes them twinkier. The point of doing a Mary Sue is to be able to accomplish all the things you think you never will in real life. Self-insertions that suffer more than the creator does may be indicative of deep-seated emotional troubles, but they're not Mary Sues. :)

Comment from: nkuvu posted at December 8, 2005 10:03 PM

Wait, Dave, are you saying that there really aren't Canadian Trapdoor Alligators? I find that a little hard to believe...

Comment from: Dave Van Domelen posted at December 9, 2005 12:09 AM

I'm saying they're fantastic. Take that as you will.

Oh, and I fail the Pencil Test, no pencils for me. Probably a good thing.

Comment from: Abby L. posted at December 9, 2005 11:19 AM

It's just as well. Bras are expensive.

Comment from: Dave Van Domelen posted at December 9, 2005 2:43 PM

Yeah, and it's not like 52A is a common size.

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