Websnark

Comment from: Lyndon W posted at December 29, 2005 1:01 PM

Well, there was always the flash free version of the comic at "http://www.alpha-shade.com/www/picPages/HPages.htm", also known as the "lo-fi" version located by clicking on the button below "enter" on the main page.

Comment from: Eric Burns posted at December 29, 2005 1:17 PM

The "lo-fi" "flash free" version uses flash as its engine as well.

The problem there is, the flash engine doesn't create a trackable history. So when I had to flip out of the site briefly and then go back, I had no way to go to my history and check where last I was.

This is the point where I figured out how to do it manually.

Comment from: William_G posted at December 29, 2005 1:17 PM

Pretty much summed up my thoughts on the comic.

Comment from: Lyndon W posted at December 29, 2005 1:20 PM

Well, the comics are JPEGs anyway.

Comment from: Eric Burns posted at December 29, 2005 1:22 PM

Yes!

And, it's worth noting, they're gorgeous.

Comment from: Lyndon W posted at December 29, 2005 1:27 PM

All available in high quality graphic novel format!

Comment from: Jin Wicked posted at December 29, 2005 1:31 PM

Words of truth.

The few times I've attempted to read that comic, I went to the lo-fi version only to find it laden with Flash as well, and leave out of annoyance. Their site gives me scroll bars both ways, my display is 1024x768, but I never surf at full screen. Flash has its uses. It's great for animations and such. Page navigation? Nothanks.

I don't really like story/drama comics anyway, so they aren't missing much by losing me, but I wonder how many other potential readers they put off this way. When I finally did get the site loaded on "lo-fi", there was no clear indication that I needed to scroll down a million miles to actually see the most recent page. At least, not one I found within ten seconds, which is about the limit of my attention span for non-userfriendly webpages.

Comment from: Eric Burns posted at December 29, 2005 1:38 PM

Yeah -- that's another point. Why in God's Name is their page so far below the fold on the Lo Fi version?

Give me HTML and before and after links any day of the week. There's just no reason for Flash, here.

Comment from: quiller posted at December 29, 2005 1:52 PM

So, I had a little tickle in my brain and I checked it out. Yep, Alpha Shade was nominated for Outstanding Web Design in the Web Cartoonist Choice Awards. 1928 technology, color me amused...

Comment from: Dave Van Domelen posted at December 29, 2005 2:05 PM

Full of Flash and Fury, signifying nothing (but getting awards for it).

I couldn't even get the page-turning links to work, so either it doesn't work at all on my browser, or there's something counterintuitive I'd have to do to make it work. Either way, not going back there again.

Comment from: Mathron posted at December 29, 2005 2:05 PM

I found the navigation neat and fun whenever it wasn't violently screwing over my reading experience.

The problem, imo, doesn't seem to be strictly the use of flash - but that the specific implementation of flash has a variety of flaws that leave much to be desired.

(And that there isn't a really bare-bones non-flash version for those that want it.)

Comment from: Tangent posted at December 29, 2005 2:19 PM

This was one of my complaints in my Meta-review of Alpha Shade. However, one of the sweet things about the Flash animation is thus: on the high-res page, you can zoom into the image. And in doing so... you can find little easter eggs and extra detail.

For instance, in panel 3 of this comic, the one with the Kitties booth, there's a kid walking along, who has a certain thick-lensed glasses and style of black hair that is reminiscent of Harry Potter (all that they left out was the scar *grin*). Also, the Kitties poster HAS ACTUAL PRINT talking about how tragic it is for kitties not to have nummies (which the Kitten Collective agrees is a true tragedy).

I wish they had gone with a no-Flash page for the low-res page... but even so, it's still a damn awesome comic, and I don't think Baby Jesus cries because of it.

Robert A. Howard, Tangents Webcomic Reviews
http://www.tangents.us

Comment from: Michael Danger posted at December 29, 2005 2:28 PM

There's not much objective ground to this opinion, but I think it bears saying that I like the flash interface.

I like the ability to easily zoom way in on the extremely detailed artwork within the web browser. I like to look for easter eggs that are completely obscured at standard web resolution. I like the page turners and the ability to peek at the storyboard layout without reloading the browser window. I like how all of these features allow me to follow along with the detailed analysis of the artwork the Joe and Chris do in their rants.

Most of all, I don't find that the interface interferes with my regular reading in any way.

I agree with the general principle that minimalist, low-bandwidth page design is usually preferable to useless bells and whistles, but in this case I believe that the interface is intuitive enough and adds enough to my experience of the comic that it is worthwhile.

Comment from: Brudlos posted at December 29, 2005 2:30 PM

Alpha Shade is illustrated in Flash. It's presented in Flash because it's drawn in Flash. Obviously if you are not a fan of Flash you aren't going to be excited about our flash presentation. Which is why we have the low bandwidth site. Usually the only flash on the low bandwidth site are the two ads on the side. However, this week we just finished up an animated product that the fans have been waiting for so we put up a full page demo on our lowbandwidth site as well. That isn't usually there. I set it to the bottom of the page now, so not to scare the kids. ( Once again - The only Flash in the HTLM version of the comic are the Ads)

"Fortunately, I was able, thanks to the low bandwidth version, to find the folder where the pages lived, and read them manually, page by page. "

At the bottom of each page there is an easy first previous,next and last buttons with a center scroll bar to instantly jump to any page. All the pages are numbered as well.

The Flash version of the site has all the cool extras, a story board toggle button and the ability to right click into the comic to zoom in up to 8 times. This is more for people that are actually interested in seeing the details and behind the scenes stuff.

CB
Alpha Shade

Comment from: RoboYuji posted at December 29, 2005 2:30 PM

I just went to the "low bandwidth" link off of the main page, and it looks like a regular webcomic site to me. Am I missing something?

Though I couldn't find the comic at all off of the regular version.

Comment from: LurkerWithout posted at December 29, 2005 2:31 PM

You summed up half my problem with Alpha Shade. Its freaking gorgeous and looks to be a very cool and interesting story. But its navigation interface drove me bugfuck and it moves sooooo damned slow...

Comment from: hitch posted at December 29, 2005 2:35 PM

"I found the navigation neat and fun whenever it wasn't violently screwing over my reading experience."

yep. because that's the way to bring in new readers. how many readers did they turn away with that interface? count me as one. when eric mentioned it in the *last* story I clicked, looked, said "oh. a flash comic. guess not" and went away.
gave it another shot here, and after about 30 seconds of clicking on what I THOUGHT were navigation buttons, looking for the conent, found a place where the characters appeared to be talking. and because flash has issues with my linux box at work, I couldn't tell if they were talking and I couldn't hear them or what. so the hell with it. I give up. don't know enough about it to even know if I should care, and probably never will at this point.

Comment from: Tangent posted at December 29, 2005 2:35 PM

CB: I think part of the complaint is that you can't just type in an http url to get to the specific page people like. Instead, you have to link to the image itself.

What can I say. Some people are just old-school. ;)

Take care :)

Rob H.

Comment from: Eric Burns posted at December 29, 2005 2:40 PM

Brudlos:

At the bottom of each page there is an easy first previous,next and last buttons with a center scroll bar to instantly jump to any page. All the pages are numbered as well.

My apologies. I thought because the low-fi interface didn't return any History entries that this too was a flash interface.

Checking your page's source, I see now that it's javascript instead. However, the referenced problem remains -- I can't see via my history where I last was when I'm clicking through the pages. Doing it manually gave me a trail I could follow, as I ducked in and out of the browser.

However, I will say that having it back at the top of the screen makes it easier. So, thank you for that.

All that being said? These are the things that are generally dealbreakers for me. They aren't, this time, because your comic is so astoundingly good.

Just, you know, for the record.

Comment from: Mathron posted at December 29, 2005 2:41 PM

Yeah, I can't say that the interface every drove me away - but I know there were numerous occasions (when first reading the comic; when coming back after missing it for a week or two and trying to find where I left off; when searching through the archives for some bit of info) when I would hit the back button... and realize I had loaded out of the page entirely, and didn't have the slightest recollection what page I was on when I came back.

Comment from: Tangent posted at December 29, 2005 2:43 PM

Been there. Done that. Truly annoyed me when I screwed up like that... *sigh*

Rob H.

Comment from: Brudlos posted at December 29, 2005 2:47 PM

"Though I couldn't find the comic at all off of the regular version."

Try pressing the button on the bottom labeled "Comic"

Or this link

http://www.alpha-shade.com/www/pages/pages.htm

The current two pages are an ad for our DVD animations, but normally it's just the comic with a full page ad on the right side on single page update days.

A funny side note about the Flash version of the comic... Last month Platinum Studios, LLC wanted to buy our flash version viewer for the comic that goes along with their Showtime series ÏJeremiahÓ, but didn't want to cough up enough dough... LOL

CB
Alpha Shade

Comment from: Eric Burns posted at December 29, 2005 2:55 PM

A funny side note about the Flash version of the comic... Last month Platinum Studios, LLC wanted to buy our flash version viewer for the comic that goes along with their Showtime series ÏJeremiahÓ, but didn't want to cough up enough dough... LOL

Proving conclusively, once more, that my opinion is as far from natural law as Fort Kent, Maine is from Cancun. ;)

Comment from: Joeno posted at December 29, 2005 3:11 PM

Just to add my voice to the 'I don't like Flash" crowd, there's some other disadvantages to Flash. I personally like to bookmark the place I last stopped reading when I initially read through the archives, and such Flash or Javascript interfaces prevent that - it's always the same. Checking for updates every day may work if you've got the time to spare, but I usually don't. Furthermore, I simply like reading larger parts of story at the same time, rather than a bit a day (or whatever your update schedule is).

Second, Flash tends to eat up more memory on my PC than I like, slowing it down too much. Tolerable if I know a site has content that I know is worth reading, but if I notice it at the first read, it isn't enticing.

As for the low-fi site not using Flash - well, Javascript being disabled is a checkbox away, and with Javascript-related exploits being common, disabling it isn't unimaginable.

Comment from: Bo Lindbergh posted at December 29, 2005 3:42 PM

Two-page spread presentation only works if you have an Apple BFM. Me, I downloaded all the Flash files and programmatically generated a set of local HTML files displaying them at a large, fixed size. With traditional static navigation links. (peek)

Comment from: Robert Hutchinson posted at December 29, 2005 4:00 PM

On first following Eric's link in the previous Snark, I went to the regular site, as opposed to the low-bandwidth site. This is because I have high bandwidth.

However, I am currently on the trailing edge when it comes to *screen resolution* (800x600). I've had this monitor for over five years, and will probably continue to have it until I finally get an entirely new computer. It does have higher resolution settings, but the monitor is too small for them, at least when it comes to my weak eyes.

As such, what bothered me wasn't the Flash--it was that the comic was being presented *sized to my window*. And on 800x600 minus toolbars and such, that equals "the text is barely legible". I never got a chance to find out that the comic was manually zoomable--I hightailed it back to "low bandwidth". As I said, I realize that I am a dying breed re: resolution. Not trying to make any general statement with this post, at least not up to this point.

But now we've passed that point, and I'm on the lo-fi site. The JavaScript navigation takes about five seconds, on my cable connection, to replace the current comic with the comic being requested. Until the new comic appears, there is no indication of what is happening. For folks who are still on dial-up, I've got to think that the delay is easily 30 seconds or more. When one's navigation is virtually indistinguishable from "the buttons are broken!" ... yeah.

Comment from: Michael Danger posted at December 29, 2005 4:06 PM

I just went to check out the low bandwidth page, which I've never looked out before. Based on what I saw there, and the rest of the comments in this thread, my analysis is as follows:

1. It's important to have a low-bandwidth version of the site, since some people aren't going to like the flash interface no matter what. It seems that enough webcomics atrocities have been perpetrated using flash that some people will no longer give the benefit of the doubt to comics that use it.

2. It would be best if the lo-fi version of the comic were in straight html, so as to conform to what people are most used to seeing in webcomics.

3. It would also be nice if the amount of scrolling could be reduced. For example, when I got to the main url (http://www.alpha-shade.com) I can't even see the link to the low bandwidth site unless I scroll down a bit (here at work I have a 17" lcd monitor, 1024x768 resolution, standard aspect ratio) and on the low-bandwidth comic page, the ads in the right-hand column are cut off.

4. I can see how it could be confusing to some that when you go to the flash version of the comic you currently see only ads, no comic pages. (I realize that this is not always the case.) The effect of this is that if someone who has never read the comic goes to the main URL, he then has to click 3 links to get to see a page of the comic (enter link, comic link, then back or first page.) This is, in my opinion, too many.

These are mostly minor points, but probably worth taking into consideration. In general, I would hope that people would have the diligence and common-sense to deal with a few small hurdles to get to quality content, but I think that the testament of the comments in this thread (as well as that of our current consumer culture in general) is otherwise.

Comment from: Joe Zabel posted at December 29, 2005 4:24 PM

For folks who really love webcomics that mimic print comics, I did this one-- http://www.moderntales.com/series.php?name=laneous&view=current . And if you'd like to see a flash simulation of a really smelly old book, check out this link from the Dark Horse War of The Worlds site: http://www.thewaroftheworlds.com/

There's a certain appeal to using the web to replicate older forms-- comics, magazines, old TV shows. After all, the web has infinite flexibility (though sometimes at a price to bandwidth and cross-platform compatability.) Part of the idea is to trigger a nostalgic memory. Another reason to do this is to try to recapture the elusive qualities of older media that have largely been lost in modern hyperlinked culture.

Comment from: Dire posted at December 29, 2005 5:28 PM

I read through the archives in two goes after it was linked by Penny Arcade. While I did find it annoying not to have a trackable history or the ability to open several pages at a time in tabs, it wasn't too bad. The artwork was gorgeous and I enjoyed the first story about the war.

The story jump was confusing, and a lot of what is happening in the new story is confusing to me as well. This is fine to me as I really don't mind being confused, my real problem is with the characters. The action happened so fast in the first one that it was hard to really get to know any of the characters. When I would start to care about one of them things would often jump somewhere else and not come back. (Like the brown haired girl with glasses and the blonde leader.) Hell, I can't even remember there names; a cast page would help. Then with the story jump I don't know any of the people they show and it is difficult to go back to see how they were in the other story.

I still enjoy the comic, but right now it is one of those that I will wait for awile and then read several comics at a time.

Comment from: GregC posted at December 30, 2005 12:22 AM

Same navigation complaint here. It took several tries to read through the archives. I'd get frustrated and quit reading. Then later the thought of that gorgeous art would pull me back. I need to go back and re-read some of the recent stuff because I'm kinda lost. I don't mind being lost, it's part of the fun in this comic. I just wish it were easier to flip back and around.

I guess I'll have to break down and buy a dead tree version that I can enjoy at my leisure. I'm sure the guys will hate that. ;-)

Comment from: Jeff Carlsen posted at December 30, 2005 2:49 AM

Although I'll admit that the home page is nearly unusable, and the low bandwidth version doesn't work so well, and the inability to link to a particular page has its hassles, the flash interface made for the most enjoyable reading experience I've ever had for a webcomic.

And here's why:

1. I could full-screen my browser and the two page format expanded perfectly, meaning it was as large as possible while not requiring any scrolling to read a page (something I really like, since I run at a 1600 x 1200 resolution), plus I only had to navigate once for every two pages.

2. You can navigate the pages using your keyboard's arrow keys. Clicking on a little "next" button aggravates my wrist after 100 or so pages, so this is a welcome touch when I'm trying to read through from the beginning.

These two facts took all the strain out of reading the comic. Sadly, the ability to navigate with the arrow keys isn't obvious in any way.

Comment from: Cnoocy posted at December 30, 2005 8:28 AM

There's no reason to have no "link to this page" functionality on a javascript page. Just set up the the onLoad function to check the querystring for a page parameter, and provide a link with an id attribute. Then you can getElementByID and set the href property as part of the same code that updates the page.

Comment from: gwalla posted at December 30, 2005 9:53 PM

Little things that bother me: why is it that, when you're looking at the latest page, the "next page" button glows when you mouseover even though it's a no-op? Shouldn't it be greyed out (or at least not glowy) to show that you can't do that?

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