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Wednesday: Poorly considered shelving units
![[Awwww, deep down you just wanna strangle Raven. From Questionable Content.]](http://www.websnark.com/archives/488.jpg "[Awwww, deep down you just wanna strangle Raven. From Questionable Content.]")
(From Questionable Content. Click for volumes of issues.)
This one really, really bugs me.
It's a beautiful punchline, of course. Do not get me wrong here. It's that I'm incredibly uneasy about what we've just built up to, and about what we might be building up to. I don't think that it's going to bode well for Faye no matter where it goes from here, either.
The point's been made over on Snarkoleptics, and again here in the strip, that having Issues isn't a blanket excuse for constantly being a bitch. That's true. But it's fallacious to assume that everything can be kept tidily partitioned without trouble, either -- asking Faye to walk away from a major shaping force in her personality is a pretty tall order.
Trauma recovery has a certain amount of process associated with it. Faye hasn't gone there or done that, and that's been the thrust of any number of strips lately. Either you work through it, no matter what it is, or you build around it. The former approach is painful and difficult; it can also take bloody well forever. The latter will do for a limited period of time, but eventually you come up against the limitations set by the damage and your compensation methods. At that point, you can either demolish and work through, quite possibly backwards, or keep building up your intricate latticework.
It's not unlike shelving. It is a right pain in the ass to organize your books (assuming you're, you know, a sane person, and you keep a sensible number of books about the place) in a fashion which is both systematic and space-efficient. It takes bloody well forever, and involves considerable amounts of planning past a certain point. It will probably also trip off your allergies for days. That said, if you don't devote the requisite amount of energy to a decent foundation, you're just going to stick your books wherever you perceive there to be space. Pretty soon, there's stacks all over the damned apartment, and where the hell is Designing Web Usability: The Practice of Simplicity again?
Most people mix strategy with disorganization. They have an organized bookcase, but they've also got the unfiled stacks. Faye is more stack than bookcase, though, because she hasn't got the shelves set up right to begin with.
At the other end of the extreme, we have Raven. "Cheer up and move on" Raven. Now, that sort of advice is fully in character for her. She's dim, she's perky, and she's determined to keep the vibe Positive At All Costs. Of course she wants Faye to buck up and stop being so gloomy; in her world, that's what you do.
The trouble is, "just moving on" -- pat, simple, just walking away from the past -- is near-as-dammit the exact same thing as not dealing with it at all to begin with. You're still not putting the books in the bookcase, and you're doing it for very similar reasons: shelving is unpleasant.
I wouldn't like to assume that Raven doesn't have any screwy issues of her own. While a lot of people really just are that way, again, "just move on and be happy" is as much of a noncoping mechanism as "I'm going to be bitchy because I Have Issues."
Have an example. It doesn't prove anything, but it's an illustration. When I was a teenager, I knew a girl who acted an awful lot like Raven. Her family wasn't the most functional one around, but she dumped all of her personal energy into the idea of being happy. Her volunteer work placed her in a position of minor leadership -- she worked with girls a few years younger than herself -- and she felt it was important "not to dwell." So, that was the advice she gave to her girls: don't dwell on bad stuff. Embrace joy. Don't be mean or grumpy, even if your day sucked. Just move on. Bad stuff is just no excuse. Even when working with girls who struggled with clinical depression, she wasn't big on processing the root causes (this was pre-SSRI antidepressant boom, too). Snap out of it! Life is good!
Then her father died.
It was sudden. Largely unexpected. This left any number of unresolved issues in the family, the way a death like that tends to work. Everyone was more than willing to let her take her time to cope, to be around to help her adjust, to take on shares of her work as needed so that she had a bit more space in her world. She wasn't interested.
She was back, at full strength, inside of a week. I saw her in black just once, and I think that was for propriety's sake.
Because, you know, it's in the past. And he's gone now. And there's nothing for it. You have to move on, you know. And why make other people unhappy? Why be unhappy? Embrace joy.
Every time I saw her after that, she got a little more brittle and a little more desperate. She piled her books in a neat and tidy stack which got taller and taller every day. You wouldn't know it just to look at her, or to talk with her casually, especially if you hadn't known the situation and you'd never met her before it all went down. I did know her, though, and I'd watched her pretty closely. I don't like to think of the legacy she left, or of the example she set.
I don't know what happened to her. Last time I checked, neither did anybody else.
My guess is that the books fell on her.
On the other hand, if you don't have a lot of books, you don't need much room to put them away. You can't tell the difference at a glance, and glances are all that we really get of Raven so far. Faye writes her off as a lamb, and Faye could be exactly right. But if that's the case, Raven's also not the one to be passing out advice. (Telling a Suicide Girl to take Prozac before she hurts herself is funny, but it also suggests a Band-Aid approach to depression maintenance. There's a reason why drugs are considered an adjunct to therapy.) And Faye's epiphany could be a step in completely the wrong direction: what if she's not going to deal with the mysterious issues?
Does this mean that Faye's just going to learn to pile the books more tidily? That would be a great shame. See, you can leave it there and move on?
But you never just leave it there and move on.
Because that's not how it works.
Posted by Wednesday Burns-White at November 10, 2005 7:14 PM
Comments
Comment from: Paul Gadzikowski posted at November 10, 2005 7:27 PM
But you never just leave it there and move on.
Because that's not how it works.
You're right, you're absolutely right.
On the other hand (as I'm sure we all know) story requires conflict. The wise thing to do doesn't always make for the best four-panel gags.
Comment from: Wednesday White posted at November 10, 2005 7:31 PM
I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing the approach Raven's taken.
Comment from: Aufero posted at November 10, 2005 7:49 PM
Well, Faye is starting to deal with her issues, (she's finally talking about them, and with several different people) so Raven's advice is moot at best. It's been made pretty obvious (both over time and in the previous strip) that while Raven may have the occasional flash of insight, taking her advice is equivalent to taking your dog's advice on what to eat - the results would certainly be memorable, but unlikely to leave you feeling better afterwards.
It did set up a pretty good joke about Poetry Major Churchill, though.
Comment from: Will "Scifantasy" Frank posted at November 10, 2005 8:05 PM
Honestly? I think Raven really is a lamb. This isn't bad, as watching her grow over the course of the series is part of the fun, and she does provide the innocence that works well with Faye.
Remember what happened when Raven asked Faye why she (Faye) was such a bitch? The blunt honesty and childlike innocence made it hard to erect the usual barriers.
It might be interesting to see what happens to Raven in the face of disaster. Hopefully, she'll go to Faye, Dora, and Marten, on the theory that they (especially Faye) know howto cope...such as when people went to Daria for advice on how to deal with a popular student's death.
Comment from: Eric Burns posted at November 10, 2005 8:06 PM
The joke rocked, without a doubt.
At the same time, it's honestly not an issue of conflict. In fact, Raven is advocating the conflictless path here. And Faye's buying into it, at least a little.
But, it's not that easy. And I suspect Jeph Jacques won't make it that easy. Because he loves us and wants to entertain us through wailing.
Comment from: TheNintenGenius posted at November 10, 2005 8:50 PM
That joke seriously made me laugh my ass off when I first read it. It was just so perfect.
Honestly, things could go any number of ways at this point. I know Raven's reasoning is flawed, but she's Raven. She's just not all that experienced or bright and never really has been. On the other hand, she does make a good point about Faye and her issues and how eventually, something will have to be done or if not, something will definitely give.
Comment from: Alexis Christoforides posted at November 10, 2005 8:58 PM
I'm pretty sure that Jeph won't make it that easy because it's also a cop-out from a good story and, you know, Chekov's Gun.
But I'm really really glad that I'm not the only one who was bugged by today's QC. It's not so much that Raven's advice was oversimplifying and [what Weds said], because that was kind of to be expected of her character; it was that I felt Jeph had her be the voice of reason in this strip.
Comment from: Wednesday White posted at November 10, 2005 9:03 PM
I didn't say he was going to make it easy, either. My assertion is that it'll still be painful -- now is clearly painful -- but it'll be problematic in an unproductive fashion.
Comment from: Peter Venables posted at November 10, 2005 9:18 PM
Great snark Weds.
Comment from: RMG posted at November 10, 2005 9:24 PM
This is the most awesome snark I've read on Websnark for a while. Nice work, Weds-- I love reading this kind of in-depth analysis of comics.
Comment from: Tangent posted at November 10, 2005 9:29 PM
Superbly written, Weds. Well done, have a ribbon. And a kitten. *hands Weds a kitten with a ribbon*
Anyone else remember when our dear little Raven was a goth? And was irate at Faye and wrote things about her in her "Deadjournal" or whatever that was?
Or for that matter about the whole "why don't you go to the coven anymore?" bit?
Raven's more than just a mindless sheep. I think she's smarter than she lets on... and I think sometimes she's playing Faye for a fool. It wouldn't surprise me when the strip's about to end that Raven apologizes but she has to quit, she's just gotten her Doctorial in Philosophy or something like that, and has a teaching job somewhere. And Faye's like "Raven? Teach? WTF?" :D
Still, some of her advice is cocked. (And this is from a devoted Faye-despiser.)
Robert A. Howard, Tangents Webcomic Reviews
http://www.tangents.us
Comment from: Montykins posted at November 10, 2005 9:50 PM
Raven's more than just a mindless sheep. I think she's smarter than she lets on
I believe there was a storyline where we learned that she was the daughter of two scientists and (by IQ) a genius. She doesn't act intelligently, but I know lots of smart people who can act like ditzes.
Comment from: quiller posted at November 10, 2005 9:53 PM
I'm starting to have this theory that QC is really just a private conversation between Jeph and Tangent. Tangent: Faye has a violence problem and Martin's like an abused spouse, why does he put up with it? QC: Martin's mom is a dominatrix and Martin may see violence as flirtatious (last part not specified in strip), and Faye's friends recognize she has a problem and are starting to call her on it. Tangent: I still despise Faye. QC: You're still reading...
But that may just be my warped mind, perhaps Jeph had this all in mind from the start.
Comment from: Tangent posted at November 10, 2005 10:04 PM
Shoot. Jeph! They're on to us!
Comment from: Kneefers posted at November 10, 2005 10:18 PM
Actually, guys, I think you have to look at the other side a bit too. As a life philosophy, you're correct that there's a certain amount of naivete that comes with just forgetting about the past. But I think that you have to see the other side of the coin too. Faye has been desperately clinging to whatever happened to her in the past, and it has shaped who she is to the point of everyone around her generally, not just Raven, getting tired of her being so mean. Raven may not be right for all situations, but I don't think that it would hurt Faye to lighten up a bit.
She needs to let go a little bit. She's stagnating the way she's going, and it's getting her nowhere, even though she's trying to deal with it constructively, I.E. work through it.
If she would let it go a little bit, then she would probably be a bit happier in the long run.
Just my two cents.
_Kneefers, Eyeballing It
http://eyeballingit.blogspot.com/
Comment from: Aufero posted at November 10, 2005 10:39 PM
She needs to let go a little bit. She's stagnating the way she's going, and it's getting her nowhere, even though she's trying to deal with it constructively, I.E. work through it.
If she would let it go a little bit, then she would probably be a bit happier in the long run.
But she hasn't been trying to deal with it constructively until quite recently - she's been completely avoiding it. (Clinging to it, yes, but trying to avoid things you can't stop thinking about is a pretty typical reaction to traumatic events.)
In a way, I agree with Wednesday's snark, because "leave it behind you and move on" is the second least constructive advice you can give someone who has a genuine mental problem. (The first, of course, being "lighten up!") Until you're willing to face things and deal with them, you can't leave them behind you - they tend to crop up again in front of you unexpectedly.
Comment from: Denyer posted at November 10, 2005 10:49 PM
in her "Deadjournal" or whatever that was?
Deadjournal does actually exist, just as an FYI.
Can't say as I've ever had a problem organising books. Clearing out stuff that won't get re-read (which is most fiction, for starters) helps. There's generally a school shelf that'll welcome them. Maybe that's the equivalent of not dwelling?
asking Faye to walk away from a major shaping force in her personality is a pretty tall order
Asking not so much. Expecting it to actually happen would be, but the cast aren't high-pressure. Which I'll take a wild guess at being partly because the author hasn't decided how things'll end, so may not have quite settled on the specifics of character backgrounds yet either.
Comment from: Kneefers posted at November 10, 2005 10:49 PM
I'm not talking about forgetting about her problems. I'm talking about not letting them get to her so much. And who's to say she has a mental problem any more than anybody else and just isn't the normal kind of screwed up?
She DOES need to stop avoiding it. What I meant is that she needs to face her problems in a constructive manner and not let them overwhelm her the way she always has in the past.
_Kneefers
http://eyeballingit.blogspot.com/
Comment from: jjacques posted at November 10, 2005 11:16 PM
Wow. You all get it. Awesome!
QC isn't so much a private dialogue between Tangents and I as it is a constant struggle to not fuck up and ruin it for everyone.
Don't go expecting mammoth, life-changing revelations in the immediate future though. I've got WAY more to do before we get to that point in this story. The way I see it, this is how real life works- you take two steps forward, one step back, then maybe wander around in the woods for a bit chasing butterflies.
Comment from: Abby L. posted at November 10, 2005 11:24 PM
I feel like this is what I'm going through right now. I've been stacking books all term, and now they're starting to wobble. Thanks for the clarifying metaphor. I think I'm at the butterflies stage at this point...
I also am really impressed by the art in QC lately. :) It just keeps getting better!
Comment from: Tangent posted at November 10, 2005 11:28 PM
Yes. This wasn't so much a step in evolution (of the art) as a flying leap in evolution. ;)
Comment from: Prodigal posted at November 10, 2005 11:55 PM
Excellent snark, Weds!
And on a side note, Jeph, I'd just like to say that every time you revise your style, all the women in the strip get hotter. Nicely done.
Comment from: RoboYuji posted at November 11, 2005 12:21 AM
Well, wouldn't actively confronting and dealing with whatever her problem is be the best way to "leave it behind you and move on"?
Comment from: Sandalphon posted at November 11, 2005 12:23 AM
One of the best things about Jeph's work on QC is that he's resisted the temptation to have any two of Faye, Marten and Dora actually pair up (sexually, romantically or both). This despite years of some fans saying, "OMFG WTF why don't Marten and Faye boink already" over and over. I think if any of the three main characters did become an "item" the strip would jump the shark.
And I'd also like to add my voice to the chorus of praise for Jeph's ever-evolving, ever-improving art style. In particular, these past few weeks I've had difficulty restraining myself from drooling over Raven. I will not lust after 2-D images...I will not lust after 2-D images...
Comment from: miyaa posted at November 11, 2005 12:45 AM
As someone who has had one of thos tramedic experiences, I have found myself more in Faye's position of not being able to let it go fully. I think it's more being emotionally trapped by your intellect. Getting past that problem is a mountain that sometimes seem like there's no end in sight.
Comment from: siwangmu posted at November 11, 2005 2:01 AM
Speaking as someone who will never, ever, ever have her mountain of literal books in any kind of ordered state, I can only hope this metaphor isn't as sound as it, er, sounds. Else my shit is fucked.
Also, re: the butterflies--you mean all this time I was supposed to be taking steps?
Interesting note: this site is my woods and butterflies.
Comment from: kirabug posted at November 11, 2005 2:32 AM
My bookshelf and my issues are probably in about the same state. I'll get them all "cleaned up" and then I'll take one or two out, then others, always putting them back in the wrong place, until one day everything's just a shambles and I need my husband's help to put them back in order. Then I'm a mess again for a while.
I think there's a difference between saying, "get over it" and what Raven's doing - which in my mind is more along the lines of, "Okay, so you can't cope, and it doesn't look like you're going to necessarily cope any time soon. Do you have to be such a bitch about it?"
Either way, it's some excellent stuff.
But, am I the only one who's noticed that the girls seem to be leaning further and further backwards when standing up? I really thought the girls in the november 7th comic were going to fall over any moment.
And I envy Jeph's ability to draw hands.
Comment from: Sandalphon posted at November 11, 2005 2:48 AM
But, am I the only one who's noticed that the girls seem to be leaning further and further backwards when standing up?
Maybe they're into 70's funk as well as contemporary indie.
Comment from: Doc posted at November 11, 2005 2:59 AM
I don't think Raven's comments are universally applicable but I don't know if they are so bad for Faye at this particular moment. We are talking about a character who we have learned more and more basically defines her actions by her issues, what Raven is telling her is that she should move past her issues but the more important implication is that there is life *after* issues, which is something she may not have considered. So no it's not as easy as Raven implies, but it may be all part of helping Faye realise that she can work through her issues and that there will be stuff on the other side.
I have to totally disagree with Sandalphon though (and I am someone who normally hates the getting together of major charactersness), as the great Monsieur Jacques has already said this is what life is kind of like: you go back you go forth and eventually maybe you 'hook up' (as the kids would have it) or maybe you don't. I don't think the itemising of characters would spoil the strip. What normally makes that sort of event spoil something good is that it involves a betrayal of the character's premise or a change in attitude for no good reason.
You could even make an argument for Martin and Faye being mostly there, emotionally. They are certainly there for each other in an emotional kind of way (well Martin is for Faye at least, I'm trusting the other way too though we haven't seen lots of examples) and it is kind of an unwritten law (and ongoing joke) that Faye has 'claimed' Martin and will injure anyone who moves in on her territory. So I think Jephy might have been sneaking the relationship up on us already, and an 'official' relationship wouldn't necessitate much change in attitude from the characters as they are now. That is once they are in the relationship, actually getting to that point will obviously involve some of the Fayemovingonness already discussed.
So yeah I think Jeph could handle this one, in fact it's such a basic premise of the strip (Martin was checking out Faye in what, the third strip?) that to never have anyone get together would be a little bit of a cop out (though I could certainly see it justified for other story related reasons and it's Jeph's baby and he knows what he is doing after all etc).
Plus Dora + Raven = totally hotastic!
Comment from: SeanH posted at November 11, 2005 5:00 AM
One of the best things about Jeph's work on QC is that he's resisted the temptation to have any two of Faye, Marten and Dora actually pair up (sexually, romantically or both). This despite years of some fans saying, "OMFG WTF why don't Marten and Faye boink already" over and over. I think if any of the three main characters did become an "item" the strip would jump the shark.
I disagree. Jeph's a good enough writer to avoid that. He'd just need a new source of tension to replace the Marten/Dora one, and that wouldn't be particularly hard...
Comment from: Kaychsea posted at November 11, 2005 5:24 AM
So are we uneasy about what is happening, what has happened, what is going to happen or what we are worried is going to happen? Because I am confused and it has hurt my wittle bwain!
Comment from: BenPop posted at November 11, 2005 5:29 AM
- Raven is most certainly intelligent. She has intelligent parents, has the IQ for herself, and is well-read. I think her problem is that, being surrounded by stuffy, academia-types for so long that she has
- Not developed the social skills necessary for interacting with most normal people, and
- Is desperate for attention.
- I agree that Jeph is an excellent writer. However, from reading his interviews and LJ, I get the impression that he will be finished with QC once things resolve. I'd be sad to see it go, sure, but I'm eagerly awaiting a comic about Pizza Girl!
- I agree with Jeph.
Mmm... so poetic.The way I see it, this is how real life works- you take two steps forward, one step back, then maybe wander around in the woods for a bit chasing butterflies.
- Anyway, I'm excited about QC more than ever. It has wonderful art and story and funny, and it's presently at the top of my webcomic bookmarks, where it has been for a long time and it will probably remain for a long time.
Comment from: elvedril posted at November 11, 2005 5:33 AM
I read the conversation differently. I took it as Raven asking simple questions, to which Faye tried answering and through actually having to put conscious thought into her behavior she decided to try to change. Raven is serving as a catalyst here, not as an advisor.
Comment from: rukkh posted at November 11, 2005 6:29 AM
This is mildly offtopic, but it does come back to stacking shelves and QC.
Sandalphon wrote:
One of the best things about Jeph's work on QC is that he's resisted the temptation to have any two of Faye, Marten and Dora actually pair up (sexually, romantically or both). This despite years of some fans saying, "OMFG WTF why don't Marten and Faye boink already" over and over. I think if any of the three main characters did become an "item" the strip would jump the shark.
This is what annoys me about QC, I'm not sure that such a scenario is even realistic. So we have Martin, he's shy enough round girls that he's not going to spit out his love for Faye. He thinks she just wants to be friends, but he loves her so he 'saves himself' for her. Fair enough, but if he's right in the head, his books are beginning to stack up and sooner or later he has to make a move. Dora on the other hand knows Faye's true feelings and is standing still out of morality and friendship. But she's also watching as Martin being torn up whilst Faye is stuffing around.
The problem is that this book stacking is happening a lot faster in the readers heads than it is in QC time, which leads to a lot of frustration. But I guess thats why i keep coming back... its frustratingly annoying, but I need to see some kind of resoultion.
I'm not sure the term 'jumping the shark' fits here, granted the story would change since so much of it revolves around the three of them, but it woulnd't be "an outrageous move designed to draw back old readers" more of a resoultion to a story thread. (unless, you know, the girls got drunk at a christmas party and got pintsize pregnant).
In a way QC reminds me of the anime 'Love Hina' which spent two seasons and a pile of specials telling the story of a boy chasing after girl, and not getting her. Very quickly it dissolved to sillyness and the only think keeping me watching was the frustration over whether he would ever find the girl he had lost. I guess my point is that if you build up a story with piles of URST eventually you have to do something about it, and its hard to resolve without pissing off people like Sandalphon who belive they should never get together, or people like me who believe that the whole excercise is pretty hollow if nothing ever happens.
Comment from: Kneefers posted at November 11, 2005 10:00 AM
Actually, I agree with SeanH. It's like Eric said in this snark (http://www.websnark.com/archives/2005/05/from_narbonic_a.html), about Narbonic, that unlike a lot of sitcoms that depend on "will-they-or-won't-they", just because Dave and Helen hooked up doesn't mean that Helen's brain won't end up in a tank while Mell becomes president. It's just another step in the story (and now, by the way, we've seen that to be true; Narbonic has lost none of its grip since that time, and it's created all kinds of new problems. It hasn't been fundamentally changed by the fact that Dave and Helen got together, and that's a feat worth mentioning.)
I think the same goes for Faye and Martin. No matter how long they dance around the fact that they like each other, the strip will not have to end or anything like that if they finally get together at some later date (which I'm still holding out hope that they might do, actually. I'm a romantic, I've always wanted Dave and Margaret to end up together in CRFH!!!, too).
Just my two cents, again.
_Kneefers
http://eyeballingit.blogspot.com/
Comment from: Alkari posted at November 11, 2005 11:05 AM
On a different note, what about the ending to Checkerboard Nightmare?
Comment from: larksilver posted at November 11, 2005 11:11 AM
Tangent says: *hands Weds a kitten with a ribbon*
Didn't I read somewhere that Ms. White has cat-dander allergies?
Okay, sorry. Back to topic.
I like Faye. I like her bitchiness, although sometimes she does take it to extremes. I think she could do worse than to figure out that not only is Marten totally gone on her, but she's seriously hooked on him... but hey, it's fun watching them avoid the issue.
As for "lighten up," and "get over it.." that's terrible advice, to a point. Even someone who has Issues can only go so long before friends and family start to say "augh! more Drama!" Live with someone long enough who acts out because of their Issues, and you reach a point where you don't care *why* they're acting out, you just want them to stop. Granted, my advice to said person would be to find a good counselor to talk to, and perhaps even consider pharmaceutical help to get over the worst part.. but that's me.
I am enjoying watching the slow evolution of Faye's character, and watching her gradually un-bitch herself. And, although this may get me lynched around here.. Raven kind of irritates me. She's using "I'm cute and sweet! Like a puppy!" to deflect criticism for being blunt, and somewhat In Your Face with Faye about her behavior. Is that really much different from Faye deflecting criticism for her own misbehavior by saying "I have Issues!"
Comment from: Sandalphon posted at November 11, 2005 11:14 AM
LOL! I would hardly be "pissed off" if Marten and Faye got together. It's only a comic strip.
That said, I just don't see it happening given the characters as they've been developed so far. Marten is so painfully shy that, I suspect, even if a woman ripped off all her clothes in front of him and cried "Take me," he'd still be all, "Urr...nurr..."
But you know, it's Jeph's strip, not ours, and only he knows where all this is going. And yes, I trust Jeph to do us proud no matter what.
Comment from: madbaker posted at November 11, 2005 11:20 AM
I'm surprised that everyone resisted the temptation to juxtapose "Faye" and "stacked".
Comment from: Sandalphon posted at November 11, 2005 11:31 AM
I'd rather juxtapose "Raven" and "stacked." But then maybe it's just her t-shirts.
Comment from: Ceejamon posted at November 11, 2005 12:17 PM
I don't think it'd be a bad thing if Martin and Faye eventually hooked up. I would imagine that if they did hook up, it'd lead to lots of complications, and plenty of funny. I like QC.
Comment from: Paul Gadzikowski posted at November 11, 2005 12:28 PM
It's just another step in the story (and now, by the way, we've seen that to be true; Narbonic has lost none of its grip since that time, and it's created all kinds of new problems. It hasn't been fundamentally changed by the fact that Dave and Helen got together, and that's a feat worth mentioning.)
I hope this is what people think of Arthur, King of Time and Space after 2007.
Comment from: larksilver posted at November 11, 2005 1:04 PM
Paul G: I have to hand it to you. I seldom know where my creative venue will take me next week, much less next year, or the year after. I'm always astonished by the fact that you have your story planned out so far in advance.
that's too much like, y'know, planning, for me. Which explains why my creative outlet is my hobby, and always will be, most likely.
Comment from: Paul Gadzikowski posted at November 11, 2005 2:18 PM
larksilver: It's not like I have next week's gags scripted already, you know. Thanks for the props, but in conscience I must share them with Geoffrey and Chretien and Thomas and Alfred and Terrance and Marion and ...
Comment from: Robert Hutchinson posted at November 11, 2005 4:37 PM
It's a pain to know where you want a comic to go when the author has already said that he knows where it's going, and it might not be the same direction.
(That's a vote agin F/M, yes.)
Comment from: Wistful Dreamer posted at November 12, 2005 2:02 AM
QC is fine for what it is. However, it will eventually have to actually dig into the underlying dramas involved in its plot threads or else eventually just be a continous spinning of wheels. I don't know who will end up with who (or even if anyone ends up together at all), but eventually they will have to actually admit that they are circling those possibilities.
Of course the sooner that happens, the sooner the strip has to end or transition. It is a fine line. Still, it has to be done. Of all the webcomix, only Sluggy Freelance has succeeded at indefinately postponing the inter-group romances (and many people say that it too has failed and suffers for not having resolved one of the romances).
Comment from: Montykins posted at November 12, 2005 1:04 PM
Why does it have to be done? Comics strips don't have to change; if you liked Beetle Bailey thirty years ago, you like it now (because it's got the exact same jokes).
Comment from: Josy posted at November 12, 2005 2:20 PM
And I know that EVERYONE here loves the atrocious dullness of most syndicated comic strips. Forgive me, but who has actually enjoyed Garfield or Peanuts or Beetle Bailey or Blondie in the past five to ten years?
No, comic strips DON'T have to change, but it's easier to keep an audience hooked if some sort of suspenseful development keeps happening.
Side note: Alkari, I don't like Raven either.
Comment from: Montykins posted at November 12, 2005 3:23 PM
Forgive me, but who has actually enjoyed Garfield or Peanuts or Beetle Bailey or Blondie in the past five to ten years?
Not me, but people do. You've seen what happens when a newspaper tries to take Blondie off the comics pages; there are people who have very strong attachments to comics that, to all appearances, haven't been funny in decades, if ever.
Garfield has many problems, but it certainly has a 100% hooked audience.
Comment from: nedlum posted at November 12, 2005 3:56 PM
Forgive me, but who has actually enjoyed Garfield or Peanuts or Beetle Bailey or Blondie in the past five to ten years?
Is Peanuts really a fair comparison? There hasn't been a new Peanuts to enjoy for almost six years, after all.
On the other hand, there are plenty of more or less static strips which nevertheless remain excelent. Calvin and Hobbes never changed, and had perhaps three off notes durring the entire run. Foxtrot is consistently amusing, as is Pearls Before Swine. And the odds of any actual plot development are as close to zilch as probabilities get.
Humor requires freshness, but it doesn't require progress. And while too many unfunny comics exist in total stasis, that doesn't mean that the stasis is to blame.
Comment from: Sandalphon posted at November 12, 2005 4:45 PM
I feel that Calvin and Hobbes did change in its last year or so, and not for the better. The strips became less about the funny and more about the "look at me I'm a great artiste capturing the wonder of childhood." Calvin's parents appeared increasingly without Calvin, and served as preachy mouthpieces for Watterson's views about what's wrong with today's society. I knew things had hit rock bottom when Calvin actually behaved for the babysitter in her last appearance.
Today, I have, and treasure, all the Calvin and Hobbes collections, except the last one. I prefer to pretend the last year or so never happened.
Comment from: Montykins posted at November 12, 2005 11:40 PM
Today, I have, and treasure, all the Calvin and Hobbes collections, except the last one. I prefer to pretend the last year or so never happened.
Ah, that's no way to live. I have, and treasure, the GREAT BIG collection that just came out that has all of the strips. Because there are strips ever from the first year that didn't get into the collections.
Also, I like owning books that require those big Dictionary Stands. And now I've brought it back around to Weds's original metaphor. Bam!
Comment from: slabgar posted at November 15, 2005 10:47 PM
I would like to chime in as a member of the (rather lonely) "rooting for a Dora/Marten conclusion" corner. Life rarely proceeds in the obvious manner.
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