Websnark: Also? There is a psionic midget. I'm just saying.

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Eric: Also? There is a psionic midget. I'm just saying.

A couple of people have written to me about my recent City of Heroes comic book post. Not the post on the recent video game update, mind. The post talking about Troy Hickman's first issue of the comic book. The people who wrote to me noticed that I put a lot of blame at the rather... depressive tone of the first three issues at Mark Waid's feet, but failed to do the same with Troy Hickman -- instead, I seemed to put the bulk of concern on Cryptic itself.

This is true. And it's true for a couple of reasons. The Waid issues seemed to follow a trend from other Waid materials, and the tone was so radically different than the earlier City of Heroes comic that it seemed to be Waid's influence primarily. However, the continuity of depressing 'role models' among the Freedom Phalanx seemed to take the onus off of Waid. And as for Hickman?

Hickman gets it. I know this, because I've read Common Grounds.

Common Grounds was an anthology series. It didn't really feature a single hero or hero team, so much as it featured a recurring setting which told several... well, largely non-violent stories about the kinds of people who became superheroes and supervillains. The hook was a chain of coffee shops and donut stores that seem like a cross between Dunkin Donuts and Tim Hortons (the donuts and the like reminds me of Dunkin D's, but the culture surrounding the shops reminds me of the sense of Canadian pride and community that surrounds the Canadian chain). These coffee shops were neutral ground, where heroes and villains could come in, sit down, drink coffee, eat donuts, relax and shoot the shit with each other. Highly powered bouncers were on staff to prevent fights from breaking out.

It's a relatively high concept, and it's the kind of coffee shop that a city like Paragon City would actually need -- after all, there are hundreds of superheroes running around every neighborhood in the city, not to mention roving packs of villains. It's almost certain they would need a place to kick back, relax and have a cruller or three.

Now, long time readers know I'm not particularly happy with the state of comic book super heroes. In a world where the Justice League is stealing plot points from the Gruenwald Squadron Supreme, where ex-wives of super heroes are killing off wives of other super heroes to win their man back, where rape and hate are par for the course and where the entirety of the Giffen/DeMatteis is subverted into a plot by normal humans (and murderers) to make super heroes subjects of ridicule, it seems to me that the core idea that super heroes are supposed to be heroes, idols for millions, and adventure stories which adults and children alike can enjoy has been totally lost. Many people have highlighted the watershed events of the eighties -- Watchmen, The Dark Knight Returns, Miracleman, and even Crisis on Infinite Earths have led an increasingly post-modern and adult take in the nineties and the twenty-first century (including such clear successes as Marvels and Sandman) which, while yielding some great stories (as well as a ton of crap) also have meant that super heroes aren't simply 'not just for kids any more,' they're not for kids at all, these days. In particular -- the core concepts of the super hero... principles of justice, of honor, of truth, and of heroism for its own sake... are seen increasingly as either quaint or suspect. There must be something really going on.

Well, Common Grounds certainly counts as acting in this post modern tradition. The stories don't accept superheroes on face value. (It reminds me in a lot of ways of Astro City, but that's a different essay.) And yet, even cloaked in sophisticated storytelling... the stories all proceed from the core assumption that being a super hero is a positive thing.

Some of the stories are funny -- detailing a very human face among the heroes. Speaking as a fat guy who's struggling to get less fat, I found the Superheavyweights wonderful. Others are darker, but the dark stories never subvert the heroic principle. Sometimes, a person breaks under the strain. Not to spoil folks who haven't read it, but the story of a former hero who couldn't go on after someone died on his watch resonated hard -- because it was the kind of thing that would have been a given in the 70's, and it's the kind of thing that no modern hero thinks about in the twenty-first century. You have Superman and Batman who won't kill, but there are days they feel like they're it, and they're always seen as quaint because of it.

Hickman remembers the power of a hero who just wants to do the right thing.

There are two stories in the collection that contrast with the City of Heroes comic in question. One is a patriotic hero having to defend her values and choices to people who feel America has let them down, which compares to Statesman's general sense of fatigue. The difference was, even though American Pi -- who did in fact pull herself out of the gutter to become a heroine -- had her faith waver, she never let it go. Statesman one doesn't get the sense has that faith to begin with. And even as Sister Psyche goes through her laundry list of the ways she hates her life and powers, we compare that to Speeding Bullet, whose own life and powers is pretty old crappy. And yet through it all, the one thing that makes it work, the one thing that keeps him going is the fact that he helps people.

Troy Hickman gets it.

I could mention Charm and Strangeness and their discovery, and what it means to them and why it affects them as powerfully as it does. Or I could mention the bathroom talk, where even the villain mentions that hey -- he doesn't want to destroy the economy. Or the sheer joy that is Flamebelle's debut. But the point threatens to become redundant. While this story is firmly in the twenty-first century, it harkens back to Silver and Golden Age beliefs and attitudes without sacrificing the story that's being told. Grim and grittiness is acknowledged satirically if at all.

In a way, it strives to be as genre expanding -- as deconstructionist -- as Watchmen was in its time. But Watchmen, as Moore later acknowledged, did so destructively. Common Grounds, while not as groundbreaking a work, deconstructs the myth while also celebrating it.

This is why I don't blame Troy Hickman for the dour, bitter, cynical ultimate heroes of City of Heroes. Because Troy Hickman gets it. And the old man Statesman and Sister Psyche meet (and fail) in the comic? He gets it too.

So. I'm not a fan of the Freedom Phalanx, but as I've already promised in the comments of my last snark on the comic, I will read the rest of Hickman's run with an open mind. Because if Statesman and the rest aren't careful, he might sneak superheroic ideals into the comic when they least expect it.

Posted by Eric Burns-White at September 5, 2005 2:26 PM

Comments

Comment from: Tangent posted at September 5, 2005 5:48 PM

Sounds like Hickman might be creating the next Watchman.

You know what would be interesting though? Seeing comics of how even heroes are unable to stop the devastation of New Orleans. For instance... Superman might be busy saving lives that were actively endangered by Katrina, and not realize that New Orleans is in danger until it's too late. (And if the Army Corp of Engineers is unable to fix those levies, how do you think Superman would be able to? Mother Nature is more powerful than you'd think... of all the heroes, probably Green Lantern would be best suited to deal with the danger, and even he would be hard-pressed to deal with multiple breeches in the levies, especially if some foes of his took that time to attack, while GL was distracted and thus vulnerable).

Something where heroes try... and try their best... and sometimes just aren't able to cope. Some disasters can even overwhelm them... but you don't sit back and cry about it, you watch them try and you cheer them on because damn, they ARE heroes and they ARE trying.

Meh. We'll see where things go.

Rob

Comment from: Prodigal posted at September 5, 2005 10:06 PM

I think JMS did the definitive take on the theme of heroes being unable to stop devastation in his 9/11 issue of Amazing Spider-Man.

I need to find my copy, and give it another read.

Comment from: Aerin posted at September 5, 2005 10:45 PM

Googling "Common Grounds" brought up scores of websites for actual, non-superpowered coffeehouses. I suppose I'm correct in guessing that this is a print-only comic? I've heard that there's a pretty good comic store near me, but I haven't yet had the energy to search for it on my own, or to find someone to go with me. I probably should, though. My background in print comics is sadly lacking.

Comment from: MasonK posted at September 5, 2005 11:52 PM

Common Grounds is, in fact, a print comic. Here's a link to Amazon with a couple of reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1582404364/002-3635301-2584042?v=glance

Comment from: Polychrome posted at September 5, 2005 11:54 PM

Common Grounds sounds really interesting. I really enjoy Astro City and as you said they seem very similar. I'll have to ask about it at my local comic shop.

Comment from: miyaa posted at September 6, 2005 12:16 AM

So...you're not the guy in the Microsoft commerical that talks about developing his newest web comic (or as he calls it, "I make the comic and then put it on the web") about the Actuary?

Comment from: TroyHickman posted at September 6, 2005 12:49 AM

First, big thanks to Eric for a very thoughtful piece. You, sir, also "get it." See, I don't mind if anyone criticizes, dislikes, or downright abhors my stuff (thankfully, doesn't usually happen), but nothing gets my goat more than people thinking I'd ever write anything that's dark, gritty, or untrue to the heroic ideal. If you've read my stories, my posts on message boards, etc., you have to know that the rise of the cynical, postmodernist, anti-hero comic has been anathema to me. In fact, about the only folks who have ever had a problem with my work are the ones who see it as too "gosh-wow" and silver-agey. I think if you finish CoH #4-6, you'll probably have to agree that it's much more of a 1970s sensibility than the decontructionist mindset of too many of today's comics (and as I said, you'll see some criticism of it on that basis, too; oh, well).

Is City of Heroes #4 any darker than my other stuff? I don't really think so, though it may seem a bit more cynical because a large portion of the issue deals with the very cynical (and rather bitchy) Sister Psyche and the somewhat disconnected-from-humanity Statesman. Hopefully the subsequent issues will seem less so. I have no illusions that everyone will dig the arc when it's done, but I'm fairly certain I won't be accused of being too "postmodern" with it.

And yes, the Common Grounds tpb is available at comic shops and bookstores everywhere (though you might have to put a bug up the retailer's backside and get him to order more copies; they steadily trickle out of stores).

Comment from: larksilver posted at September 6, 2005 1:22 AM

I'm going to try to reign in a favorite rant of mine which makes me seem substantially older than the 34 years I currently hold... but I just have to chime in. It's a compulsion, a geas, if you will. So, fair warning.

What the heck is wrong with "gosh wow?" Who decided that having a hero who just wants to be good for it's own sake is a hokey idea, and thus "laaaaaaame?"

I read Watchman, and it was a groundbreaking work, it really was. But you know what? It was also just about the most depressing thing I've ever read. The same folks, it seems, who lament that there aren't enough heroes around, are the ones who trash a real heroic figure when they appear on the scene.

I don't know about most people, but I do know about myself. Even on my most cynical and tired-of-humanity-in-general days, I truly do believe that it's my responsibility to be the best I can be. There's no ulterior motive in that, it's not even something I generally discuss with the people around me, nor is it something I use to feel "better" than others. It's about me, my desire to feel good about who and what I do at the end of the day.

So while there's a place for antiheroes, and for heroes for whom life just goes.. wrong somehow.. there's still a place out there for characters who just want to do the right thing, not for glory, or for acclaim, but because darnit, someone has to - because they couldn't sleep at night if they knew they weren't fighting the good fight. The know they can't solve all ills, nor stop all catastrophes (such as hurricanes) from killing people, but by all that's holy, they're going to do their best to stop the evil that presents itself in their path, which is more than most can or will do. Thus: hero! as opposed to "silly guy in tights."

I haven't bought a print comic in years, not since the baby, and my subsequent discovery of the joys of webcomics delivered to my screen every day (woohoo!), but I think I may have to go find myself a copy of Common Grounds. Because if Mr. Hickman is also a true believer, I've got to support that. Heck, I've got to celebrate that. And thank him for it. Profusely.

Comment from: TroyHickman posted at September 6, 2005 1:40 AM

Lark, if you can't find a copy of CG, let me know. And thanks for putting it better than I ever could have. I read somewhere recently that the anti-hero was the postmodern man's way of saying "I give up"...well, I for one am not giving up, and it's always good to know I'm hardly alone. And yes, this is where the anti-gosh-wow folks are rolling their eyes... :)

Comment from: RoboYuji posted at September 6, 2005 2:58 AM

Personally I think there is more than enough room for BOTH kinds of superhero stories. Too often it seems like people decide that EVERYTHING has to be one way or the other to the extreme. Like you can either have gosh-wow OR grim and gritty and not things that fit into both.

Comment from: Kaychsea posted at September 6, 2005 4:33 AM

I can see the problem, but also both sides. Which gives me a headache.

I have enjoyed both types of fiction and have run characters in both types of Champions campaign. Indeed one of my characters subverted a Golden Age look and feel campaign to some extent. The turning of Spotlight to The Fear is why I know that the problem with introducing the grit into a Golden Age style campaign is that it degrades the only real currency the Heroes have, the acceptance, if not adulation, of the guy in the street.

Think Black Sox and how long Baseball took to get people behind it again.

Comment from: Shinyarinka posted at September 6, 2005 8:54 AM

Well, I can't really follow up on this much, because I agree with most of the points made. Common Grounds was amazing(I still needa get my hands on CG #6 :(), CoH #4 was disappointing, but not because of Hickman, there should be heroes who are heroes for the sake of being heroes, etc.

There's also a place for the gritty, the bitter, the anti-heroes and tragic heroes and psychotic heroes. I don't find them enjoyable, but admit that they have their place, too.

So most of this boils down pretty much to "Yeah! Me too!"

I can add that topcow.com provides online previews of some Common Grounds stories, so you might want to take a look(Under "library"). That's probably a workable resource for those who haven't read Common Grounds.

Comment from: 32_footsteps posted at September 6, 2005 11:09 AM

I've got a question about this, and I'm hoping that the answer is yes. If not, well, I'll probably have something for NaNoWriMo.

Has there been any story where the gritty post-modern hero look out at what he's become, compared to the rest of the world, and bemoan it? And when he comes up and meets an old-school "fight the good fight" hero, decides to change into that kind of hero? If so, what is it so I can read it?

I'm beginning to think that this is the flaw with super hero comics. It isn't that we have the post-modern hero, a la Moore's Watchmen, it's that we have plenty of examples of heroes becoming that, but not leaving it.

We have our heroes who have fallen from grace. While the heroes who have not succumbed to antiheroic urges are a good balance, what we really need is the story of redemption.

Also, I might be in the minority on this, but I think the best moment for post-modernism in comics was actually in The Tick, I believe in issue #4 (The Night of a Million Zillion Ninjas, if I recall correctly). Specifically, it's right after one of the ninjas stabs Oedipus (a very unfortunately named woman who was working with The Tick). The Tick brutally beats said ninjas (instead of just humorously doing so), then carries Oedipus, looking down at her and saying "This isn't supposed to happen."

Comment from: Eric Burns posted at September 6, 2005 11:16 AM

32 -- whether or not that story currently exists, I think the field's ripe for another take on it. Good luck!

(I'm working on a short story anthology dealing with similar kinds of dichotomies, but I haven't touched on that specific permutation.)

Comment from: 32_footsteps posted at September 6, 2005 11:30 AM

Now, the only trick will be to actually write it. I'm fairly confident as a critic and an essayist, and I feel I can do a decent poem or short story, but a novel is another beast entirely.

Comment from: TroyHickman posted at September 6, 2005 1:44 PM

By the way, Eric, I read your initial comments to the woman I love, and she responded "Very well done. Now that guy's a good writer!" (Of course, being with me, how would she know one if she saw one...cough cough...).

Comment from: Prodigal posted at September 6, 2005 10:49 PM

I'm one of those who values both ends of the brightness spectrum in comics, but the more I work on superhero stuff these days, the more I try to capture the Silver Age than the modern one. When I play City of Heroes, I'm playing the brightly-clad Decibelle, all four-color energy and optimism.

Which made me glad that I'd opted out of the comic, once I heard about the spin Mark Waid put on things. But now that Troy has come on here to give us the context of what he's doing, I am looking forward to borrowing a friend's copies of the book and reading through them. Thank you, Troy, for pulling the curtain back just enough to make me consider taking the comic again.

And on a side note, just wanted to say that the ending of Common Grounds #4 made me teary-eyed in all the right ways. So thank you for that, as well.

Comment from: Ferrous Buller posted at September 8, 2005 4:43 PM

The problem with superhero comics isn't one of setting or mood or tone or genre. It isn't "grim `n gritty" vs "sense of wonder." It isn't Golden Age revival vs post-modern anti-heroes. And it sure as hell isn't a new problem.

It's lack of originality. It's shameless derivation and repetition. It's creators who treat comics as work-product and publishers who are more concerned with profit margins and deadlines than with art. It's everyone who's content to retread the same damn thing countless times rather than try to push the envelope forward. And it's plagued the industry for its very beginnings.

It's the writing, stupid.

Tell a good story and people will read it - period. Tell a bad one and it will suck - period. And it doesn't matter how you try to dress it up or what well-worn cliches you use to try to disguise it. It doesn't matter if you try to go for shock value - "Blood! Nipples! Bad Words!" - or mine reader nostalgia for the "good ol' days" - "When men in tights weren't *just* escapees from the Kirov Ballet!" It doesn't matter what color paint you slap on the facade if it's the same tired structure underneath.

If you've got no clothes, you've got no clothes.

Honestly, you'd think folks knew by now to apply Sturgeon's Law to everything...

Comment from: JDanRyan posted at September 9, 2005 10:55 PM

My forgiveness if the point isn't entirely relevant, but I kept playing this situation out in my mind as I read the initial post and the reactions to it:

I'm doing the best I can to pass on a respect of superheroes to my son, who's turning seven. I try and share with him those comic stories a seven year old can handle (things like reprints in DC's THE GREATEST 'fill in the subject here' STORIES EVER TOLD) and the such, hoping to keep the traditions alive. And as of now, after all that, he has a favorite costumed crimefighter:

Captain Underpants.

Sure, he's no post-modernist, and he sort of fits into a Silver Age sensibility. The problem is, he's not quite... Well, he's not quite, y'know?

What does it say, though, if we have superheroes for us adults that aren't for the kids, that the kids now have their own heroes we can't quite embrace? And if the younger set is going for a third option that isn't readily defineable, let alone easy to approach, what does it mean when they are old enough to pay the three bucks for an issue at the retailer that they can choose?

Websnark

Besides, the box comes with Ravage.